Atheism or the big problem with little words
I used to be an atheist until two things became apparent one being that there is something which sticks all the stuff in the universe together that can't be proven.
Of course that could change soon with the discovery of the Higgs boson.
The second thing was that some Atheists are are not well researched in the general tenets of Atheism itself.
They would argue for the sake of argument being very smart assed would be the way to put it.
I have found Atheists who have been critical of even their own belief, that have thought hard about what they feel is a better way of viewing life and living.
They have been very intelligent and oddly not out to debate unless invited to.
Generally they're very accommodating, respectful and open to the views of others within the realm of civility.
Then there is the person who is none of the above. Perhaps they're neophytes to Atheism or maybe they aren't Atheist at all But they will bring up specific points of a belief system and rattle the cage with the same.
It seems to me missing the point of Atheism which is not subscribing to the idea of a deity or a supreme being and while that implies being somewhat skeptical it doesn't mean you have to be completely negative.
So here I offer these rebuttals to some comments that I've read on the net.
If in fact having a deity leads to the murder of innocent people as is mentioned in mind of the Catholic Church then the same can be said of those with none and you have to look no further than the old USSR, Cambodia, Cuba.
Go further back to Genghis Khan
who might have been into shamanism as a young man but never let on as to who he might be praying to. As the ruler of the Mongols he could give a crap who you prayed to making him an equal opportunity slayer.
He and his brood did slaughter many a peasant just because they could! They swept through Asia welcoming all religions while raping and pillaging in a fair and equitable manner.
I have to admit my testosterone level goes up thinking about the guy.
On that thought.
Homosexuality being forbidden is another sore point and that provision is in pretty much any modern religion. Of course, as will happen, different sects of main religions pop up and they welcome this or that exception to convention be it homosexuality, polygamy, misogyny etc.
It is something that brings the validity of organized religion
into question but opens the door for those who would like to experience a congregational relationship while maintaining an openly alternate lifestyle.
Another point of debate is the hypocrisy in being anti gay yet covering up homosexual pedophilia. This again is aimed mostly at the Catholic Church.
Well to be fair I have read about several priests who've been convicted! But I have also read the same about hockey, football coaches, male and female teachers.
Of course they are likely of Christian faith so this could be a common thread, less common I bet than the fact that they're all human.
It is obviously bad to have people cloistered which is a point brought up in regards to the Clergy. Again it is unfortunate but this protectionism and cronyism extends beyond the walls of a cathedral. It is a practice of police officers, army personnel, sports teams,etc they all do it!
Protect the fraternity (to a point) from attack. Yea I know they probably say they are Christian or of some other faith so by association they are what is bad about religion?
Even Charles Manson said he had a faith, of course at one point it was a hybrid which he could call his own but when he entered prison for the last time he put down Scientology as his faith du jour.
I was going to put a photo of the crime scene but didn't have the stomach for it, Charles Manson -what a fuck tard.
So there it is a few examples of why you don't attack the faith of many through the indiscretions of a few.
The raw truth is that on most points I agree with the Atheist, there is no need for a deity of any sort.
I agree that giving human quality to something which is universal and of another plane is ridiculous but I can also see why it happened, both belief and submission can be explained and ignored which is the hallmark of Atheists: understanding what makes us tick and avoiding those pitfalls which make us Tock.
I'm probably like most Atheists in my thoughts.
When a Natural or man made disaster strikes it does harm to everyone.
Perhaps not evenly but not selectively either so this idea that praying to a God to protect you just might be hokum.
Just as praying to win a lottery proves nothing, whether you win or lose religion gives God's will to anoint the adherent and then by default punish the others who are not "as good".
This underlines the ridiculous notion that some divine being is there to help out so you can prosper when you know you are as righteous as your neighbor.
This is the view of the cousin to the Armchair Atheist, the Weekend Christian, who is sure that God hates him because his crop failed or he didn't get that promotion one is as mis-informed as the other.
There is that word that bugs most atheists God.
What I see if I think of God is just nothing, amorphous, more a cloud of energy than a form of any sort.
What do I think of if I try to explain God?
More than anything I think of what binds the universe rather than what binds the human spirit.
Am I an Atheist?
Yes I am in that I don't believe that some guy in a white robe is up there somewhere conducting the doings on earth.
But this is where it gets a bit sticky you see I do believe that we can reach a higher plane through meditation and that is a tough one for an Atheist to understand.
They will want proof of this transcendence and there isn't a way of doing that yet.
It would be somewhat like proving driving.
You can enjoy the ride, you can watch as I drive by you but the only way you can have absolute proof of driving is to drive yourself. Really most Atheists understand the collateral benefits of religious belief it is the idea of a deity to worship and to pray to that is the problem.
Alan Watts was one who, I believe rightly, commented on communication saying that words get in the way of meaning.
I say pray and a majority think of a pew lit by candles and me in grey robe mumbling something in Latin. Maybe a full gospel song of praise to the Lord you might imagine me in a sweat lodge.
I type the word God and...well we covered that already.
Multiply the problem by using more words!
For me the word God is not a deity it is a rule by which we exist in this form and any other. It is to me the glue that tries to hold things together, the formulation of the fabric of the cosmos and I have a feeling that it's a mystery that will confound us for ever. While there is not a human like being isn't there "something" beyond human that communicates to some of us, or is it just a controlled schizophrenia?
When I was in the church and reading the Holy Bible I had a very unsettling experience.
I was meditating and suddenly I heard my name called by a voice I had never heard before.
I'm not going to debate what that was but it did put me in a panic and later made me wonder if this is common to spiritual people.
At the time I stopped and thought "Go away" and the voice has never been heard from since. What does this prove on a personal level? The only thing that it proves is that hearing a voice other than your own is possible.
If this voice had persisted I would have a different commentary going on here. Yet I can not discount that the voice was some energy that comes from some other place, some being trying to get a hold of me over the vastness of the cosmos only to find that I simply was not ready for the conversation.
I had already exposed myself to the theory of bicameralism and
it makes a lot of sense if you agree that everyday passing
is a step forward in the march of humankind's progress.
I wonder if in the end the conclusion of Julian Jaynes is wrong. I wonder if what he describes as a link to modern schizophrenia is something we have lost instead of gained? Right or wrong he has opened a big ass can of worms in his study of human consciousness.
My personal experience still leaves me in wonderment.
So is a deity worth much in this day and age?
YES to some it is a way to cope with this world, is that a problem? I would hope not what kind of arrogant dick would suppress someones faith?
OK besides a communist regime, or any of many other .
Oh it would be so simple if it weren't for dogma and the polarizing effect that most beliefs can conjure when using dogma not only with foreign groups but within their own ranks.
I see the majority of religions have one common fault that they allow elitism to occur and are male dominated organizations which doesn't mean that the doctrine supports misogyny but can be interpreted so that it leads to it.
When I was young I would berate a persons beliefs as I got older I thought that those beliefs were valid in as much as it helps some to cope with life situations. Then I was introduced to the, what I found as backward, beliefs of Islam, Hasidism, Hinduism, Sihkism and a half dozen other ism's.
The one that I found uniquely sane was Buddhism in that the woman and man are considered not only equals but separate individuals and they can become spiritual equals! Wow a few thousand years before Christianity.
The concept of being responsible for your actions was revolutionary 2500 years ago.
The idea that you become Buddha if you can focus and maintain a state of enlightenment sounds very tough but it reinforces the idea that the Earth is here for the Earthly self and there is a higher plane of existence where the Earthly is left behind.
The idea that you were not tied by blood to the actions of another is also a change."Honor killing" comes from this ridiculous notion that you are spiritually liable for the actions of others, your daughter strays and therefore is a stain on the family and must be killed, it is something that the Atheist and I would both agree is dogmatic and backward.
From the outside looking in I would think that the discipline of Buddhism would be well suited to the world and all would embrace it if they embraced any religion at all but it is
Islam that's the fastest growing. It seems, albeit at a glance, that Islam is the polar opposite of Buddhism and I would think that the western mind finds it socially backward. So how is it growing?
That is for another post another day.
Am I an Atheist?
Probably not.
Am I a Christian?
Not really.
A Buddhist?
Kind of.
In the end I believe in concepts rather than labels and titles.
Trying to avoid the problems created by just one little word.
A footnote:
A.J.Jacobshas written a book "My year living Biblically". I'm not going to go into detail about the book but it does explore the role that old time religion plays in the modern world to a modern man.
It is entertaining, enlightening a quick read and written by sort of an Atheist.
 |
| What a light show! |
The second thing was that some Atheists are are not well researched in the general tenets of Atheism itself.
They would argue for the sake of argument being very smart assed would be the way to put it.
I have found Atheists who have been critical of even their own belief, that have thought hard about what they feel is a better way of viewing life and living.
They have been very intelligent and oddly not out to debate unless invited to.
Generally they're very accommodating, respectful and open to the views of others within the realm of civility.
 |
| I would say it's a belief not a religion |
Then there is the person who is none of the above. Perhaps they're neophytes to Atheism or maybe they aren't Atheist at all But they will bring up specific points of a belief system and rattle the cage with the same.
It seems to me missing the point of Atheism which is not subscribing to the idea of a deity or a supreme being and while that implies being somewhat skeptical it doesn't mean you have to be completely negative.
So here I offer these rebuttals to some comments that I've read on the net.
If in fact having a deity leads to the murder of innocent people as is mentioned in mind of the Catholic Church then the same can be said of those with none and you have to look no further than the old USSR, Cambodia, Cuba.
 |
| The real hood |
who might have been into shamanism as a young man but never let on as to who he might be praying to. As the ruler of the Mongols he could give a crap who you prayed to making him an equal opportunity slayer.
He and his brood did slaughter many a peasant just because they could! They swept through Asia welcoming all religions while raping and pillaging in a fair and equitable manner.
I have to admit my testosterone level goes up thinking about the guy.
On that thought.
Homosexuality being forbidden is another sore point and that provision is in pretty much any modern religion. Of course, as will happen, different sects of main religions pop up and they welcome this or that exception to convention be it homosexuality, polygamy, misogyny etc.
 |
| No matter what religion or culture. |
It is something that brings the validity of organized religion
into question but opens the door for those who would like to experience a congregational relationship while maintaining an openly alternate lifestyle.
Another point of debate is the hypocrisy in being anti gay yet covering up homosexual pedophilia. This again is aimed mostly at the Catholic Church.
Well to be fair I have read about several priests who've been convicted! But I have also read the same about hockey, football coaches, male and female teachers.
Of course they are likely of Christian faith so this could be a common thread, less common I bet than the fact that they're all human.
 |
| Do you think they've sexed each other? |
It is obviously bad to have people cloistered which is a point brought up in regards to the Clergy. Again it is unfortunate but this protectionism and cronyism extends beyond the walls of a cathedral. It is a practice of police officers, army personnel, sports teams,etc they all do it!
Protect the fraternity (to a point) from attack. Yea I know they probably say they are Christian or of some other faith so by association they are what is bad about religion?
 |
| The religion of money? |
I was going to put a photo of the crime scene but didn't have the stomach for it, Charles Manson -what a fuck tard.
So there it is a few examples of why you don't attack the faith of many through the indiscretions of a few.
The raw truth is that on most points I agree with the Atheist, there is no need for a deity of any sort.
I agree that giving human quality to something which is universal and of another plane is ridiculous but I can also see why it happened, both belief and submission can be explained and ignored which is the hallmark of Atheists: understanding what makes us tick and avoiding those pitfalls which make us Tock.
I'm probably like most Atheists in my thoughts.
When a Natural or man made disaster strikes it does harm to everyone.
Perhaps not evenly but not selectively either so this idea that praying to a God to protect you just might be hokum.
Just as praying to win a lottery proves nothing, whether you win or lose religion gives God's will to anoint the adherent and then by default punish the others who are not "as good".
This underlines the ridiculous notion that some divine being is there to help out so you can prosper when you know you are as righteous as your neighbor.
This is the view of the cousin to the Armchair Atheist, the Weekend Christian, who is sure that God hates him because his crop failed or he didn't get that promotion one is as mis-informed as the other.
 |
| That does nicely. |
What I see if I think of God is just nothing, amorphous, more a cloud of energy than a form of any sort.
What do I think of if I try to explain God?
More than anything I think of what binds the universe rather than what binds the human spirit.
Yes I am in that I don't believe that some guy in a white robe is up there somewhere conducting the doings on earth.
But this is where it gets a bit sticky you see I do believe that we can reach a higher plane through meditation and that is a tough one for an Atheist to understand.
They will want proof of this transcendence and there isn't a way of doing that yet.
It would be somewhat like proving driving.
You can enjoy the ride, you can watch as I drive by you but the only way you can have absolute proof of driving is to drive yourself. Really most Atheists understand the collateral benefits of religious belief it is the idea of a deity to worship and to pray to that is the problem.
I say pray and a majority think of a pew lit by candles and me in grey robe mumbling something in Latin. Maybe a full gospel song of praise to the Lord you might imagine me in a sweat lodge.
I type the word God and...well we covered that already.
Multiply the problem by using more words!
For me the word God is not a deity it is a rule by which we exist in this form and any other. It is to me the glue that tries to hold things together, the formulation of the fabric of the cosmos and I have a feeling that it's a mystery that will confound us for ever. While there is not a human like being isn't there "something" beyond human that communicates to some of us, or is it just a controlled schizophrenia?
 |
| Don't know why I used a picture from a church in Seoul. |
I was meditating and suddenly I heard my name called by a voice I had never heard before.
I'm not going to debate what that was but it did put me in a panic and later made me wonder if this is common to spiritual people.
At the time I stopped and thought "Go away" and the voice has never been heard from since. What does this prove on a personal level? The only thing that it proves is that hearing a voice other than your own is possible.
If this voice had persisted I would have a different commentary going on here. Yet I can not discount that the voice was some energy that comes from some other place, some being trying to get a hold of me over the vastness of the cosmos only to find that I simply was not ready for the conversation.
I had already exposed myself to the theory of bicameralism and
it makes a lot of sense if you agree that everyday passing
is a step forward in the march of humankind's progress.
 |
| Julian Jaynes |
My personal experience still leaves me in wonderment.
So is a deity worth much in this day and age?
YES to some it is a way to cope with this world, is that a problem? I would hope not what kind of arrogant dick would suppress someones faith?
OK besides a communist regime, or any of many other .
The very best I have ever been as a "human being" was while I was involved with not so much the church as the "word" of the Bible.
Oh it would be so simple if it weren't for dogma and the polarizing effect that most beliefs can conjure when using dogma not only with foreign groups but within their own ranks.
I see the majority of religions have one common fault that they allow elitism to occur and are male dominated organizations which doesn't mean that the doctrine supports misogyny but can be interpreted so that it leads to it.
When I was young I would berate a persons beliefs as I got older I thought that those beliefs were valid in as much as it helps some to cope with life situations. Then I was introduced to the, what I found as backward, beliefs of Islam, Hasidism, Hinduism, Sihkism and a half dozen other ism's.
The one that I found uniquely sane was Buddhism in that the woman and man are considered not only equals but separate individuals and they can become spiritual equals! Wow a few thousand years before Christianity.
The concept of being responsible for your actions was revolutionary 2500 years ago.
The idea that you become Buddha if you can focus and maintain a state of enlightenment sounds very tough but it reinforces the idea that the Earth is here for the Earthly self and there is a higher plane of existence where the Earthly is left behind.
The idea that you were not tied by blood to the actions of another is also a change."Honor killing" comes from this ridiculous notion that you are spiritually liable for the actions of others, your daughter strays and therefore is a stain on the family and must be killed, it is something that the Atheist and I would both agree is dogmatic and backward.
From the outside looking in I would think that the discipline of Buddhism would be well suited to the world and all would embrace it if they embraced any religion at all but it is
Islam that's the fastest growing. It seems, albeit at a glance, that Islam is the polar opposite of Buddhism and I would think that the western mind finds it socially backward. So how is it growing?
That is for another post another day.
Am I an Atheist?
Probably not.
Am I a Christian?
Not really.
A Buddhist?
Kind of.
In the end I believe in concepts rather than labels and titles.
Trying to avoid the problems created by just one little word.
A footnote:
A.J.Jacobshas written a book "My year living Biblically". I'm not going to go into detail about the book but it does explore the role that old time religion plays in the modern world to a modern man.
It is entertaining, enlightening a quick read and written by sort of an Atheist.
Comments
Post a Comment